Klimator - Stewart Mackenzie

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/viktorschaubergergroup/message/1142

From: "Curt Hallberg" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue Aug 23, 2005  12:35 pm
Subject: SV: [viktorschaubergergroup] Curt -> Klimator

Hi Stewart!

OK, I will TRY to answer your questions below! Now, I some cases we simply do not have the correct information. Then we must use our technical skill and imagination. An other thing we must do is to learn to think how Viktor Schauberger think. First read the litterature, doing this try to remember the most basic things about Implosion. Then maybe the most important: DO SOMETHING PRACTICAL!! Just start to play with water make spirals, or look into the nature in water falls etc. But DO something practical!!!

Implosion is a cold, low pressure, non combustion technique that is used to make low grade energy usable. As soon as you utilise energy in some meaning it is: Explosion.

YOU CAN NOT HAVE EXPLOSION WITHOUT IMPLOSION AND VICE VERSA!

Compare with the "Kingdom of plants" and the "Kingdom of animals" and the perfect balance an co operation between these two. Here we have the inner essence of the Ying/Yan symbol (in my meaning).

The plants are mostly Implosive in the way of function. They gather sun energy in a cold process and build higher levels of energy (sugar among other things). BUT, in order to grow and develope the must use energy and they are therefore a bit Explosive.

We, the animals, are the opposite. We eat plants and burn the gathered energy and get hot, so we radiate heat = Explosion. On the other hand we must be a bit Implosive in our inner functions as our respiratory system, our heart and blood system and the lymph system (just to mention some) in order to save energy.

All in all in the nature this is a system in fine balance. However, we humans with our so called intellect and sharp mind, burn fuels, splitting atoms and alters this balance into dangerous levels. This is why Viktor Schauberger talks so much about the Implosion. As a matter of fact all his machines was designed for generating Implosion energy so that they would re estabilish the balance. The energy production or whatever, came in the second hand.

However, he was absolutely aware of the need of these new energy machines so that is why he also made them as energy producers.

Now, we must all think in terms of low pressure and cold processes. A vortex is a typical example of this. In the centre there is a low pressure (down to vacuum) and this also gives a temperature drop according to the gass laws. So we must learn how to generate a vortex or a system of vortices and how to maintain them in the most efficient way. Then we have an important lesson to make: You can not utilise a vortex directly! If you do so it will be destroyed and fade out. What is possible to do is to use the EFFECT of the vortex as the low pressure or the high speed (high kintetic energy) of the central axis after the shaping of the vortex. This last example is utilised in the Heimkraftwerk and the Repulsin. In the Klimator it is the cooling effect that is used. Here we have a strange efffect according to V. S. In the Klimatro when used as a heater the hot air did not go to the ceiling but it falled down to the floor!!??? Viktor meant that this is an other type of heat. I do not know if this was so but I have seen a Klimator working and it gets hot, and cold if you choose so. This Klimator is made of Fritz Watzl in Austria not far from PKS. Sadly it was not made very good and by hand so he did not want us to make some copies...

Finaly I have a question: Is everybody only working with energy production or flying devices or the other flashing devices? Don't we have any one working with Viktors agricultural ideas or restoration of destroyed nature or similar???

Anyway, I will try to answer you question in the text below:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/viktorschaubergergroup/message/1128

From: stewart mackenzie <[email protected]>
Date: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:33 am
Subject: SV: [viktorschaubergergroup] Curt -> Klimator

Dear Curt

I have spoken to a chap down the way who has a company which can most likely do what I need to be done. www. cmda. com for those who are interested.

Now I sat down with the big boss and spoke about my ideas. He took the information and was keen to get going with the idea. I recently sent you an email, (which i have attached at the bottom of this email for the benefit of the group.) asking your advice about how to build a repusator, the spring water ennobling machine. Well it comes to this. The time taken to get a fully fledged production machine will take a year or more of going through different prototypes and troubles/expense here and there.

The second alternative machine to create was the Klimator, of which I already have Pro Engineer files. Though I do realize after learning a few things from this group that my design is incorrect. I need to redo it. According to Charlie, CMDA's boss the Klimator should be done in a month or more. So the fingers are starting to shake with excitement.

Due to the large iteration cycles for the repulsator and large amounts of money required, AND most importantly what kind of a business model am I going to have to swing just to get replaceable CO2 canisters. Impracticable to start off with, but lots of money will need to be thrown at it in order to make it a viable selling product.

Therefore I choose to make the Klimator, BUT with no heating element. I am interested only in cooling the air. This Klimator will serve as a prototype with which I can use as a proof of schauberger's concept for finding further investors and financial backers.

I have questions to build a Klimator. If you could be so kind as to help me with them:
1.) What is the distance between the two wavy plates?
2.) What diameter of the machine/wavy plates is best to use?

QRT If you take a look on the picture I sent for a while [ago] you can see the distance. The diameter of the waved double membrane is 500 mm and the distance between is around 5 mm. If you scale the picture so the radius is 250 mm you will get the correct distance.

3.) Please refer to the klimator in Energy Evolution. Note the hollow donut cowl pressure chamber thing: Is this REALLY needed... (or is that just to allow heating?) Because it will be expensive to make. I choose to leave it out. Will there be any great impact on the cool air.

QRT If you mean the picture on pg 168 is this an old version. The version you can see on my picture is one of the latest and very much like the Repulsin. The difference is the heating system and the cathalyst. So, I would say the hollow donut can be excluded in a first test.

4.) Depending on radius/diameter of wavy plates what kind of RPM's are we looking at.(I hope to draw from your experience and not only Energy Evolution.)

QRT Well, is some places 1200 rpm is mentioned and other up to 20 000 rpm. But if we consider the speed of sound as a working point for the perifery we get: Circumference = radius (0,25 m) * 2 * PI = 1,571 m The speed of sound is ~340 m/s = 340 / 1,571 = 216,5 rps = 12 987 rpm However, I know that waved plates of copper starts to bend out around 8000 rpm (Klaus Rauber group). So, if such a high rpm device is used we must have strong or more lighter discs....

5.) Refering to the many holes in the Upper wavy plate. Are these needed? Or is this Schauberger's way of being able to implode as much air as possible?

QRT You will certainly need a certain amount of air! It is important that the air is preformed before it enters the double menbranes and so we have enough of it.

6.) Do both the wavy plate disks rotates on the same axle... (ie. are they both dynamic?) or is one static. (again drawing from your own experience and not just (E)nergy(E)volution)

QRT At all drawings and photos I have seen I can not see anthing else that the double membrane is co-rotating! More, actually the whole upper copper bowl does rotate. The fixed parts are the stand and the metallic ring on the outside. However, the machine tested in Augsburg had one disc fixed according to Olof Alexandersson (author of Living Water). In our group we are not ready with this discussion, yet.....

7.) Is there any advice that you can share with me on how to build one of these machines? (like dont use screws with magnetic properties as they will melt when the diamagnetic forces build up to such a large extent that they break the bonds of the magnetic metal.)

QRT Viktor used Iron, Aluminium and copper in his devices. The Iron parts where in the stand and the outer ring. He used cast aluminium in a support plate for the double membrane. The other parts: double membrane, the outer and inner bowls and the pre forming inlet were made of high grade acid free copper. Possible, the copper was plated with silver or gold on the active parts (i. e. in contact with process air/water).

8.) The ratio of the cut, shall I do this:
1.) steadily decrease the length of the sine wave by 1:1.618 AND decrease the height of each peak and trough by 1:1.618?
2.) stick to a good ol' sine wave
3.) follow schaubergers straight up and down bend at peak and trough profile
4.) Keep the Height where it is and decrease the period or length of the wave only by 1:1.618.
5.) Keep the Length/Period the same on each iteration of the sine curve but decrease the amplitude or height of the wave by 1:1.618.

QRT It depends on what your intentions are! If you are going to make like Viktor did you should follow number 3! Then if you want to experiment you should have the same profile if you have one disc fixed otherwise if you co-rotate them you might have an increase of the phase. Let the distance between the tops (and valleys) increase by following the hyperbolic curve. In both cases you could let the tops decrease by following the same curve.

9.) I am going to go for the top of the range Mabuchi motor (http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp) one can specify exactly what one needs. If they dont have it thell make it for you. This is all very good and well but I only have a idea as to what I need. It variable rpm 10,000 down to 4000. Any more light on this issue? (similar to question 4 but different.)1.) Please let me of the best motor configuration.

QRT As you say look in question 4, I do not have any aspects on the choice of motor.

10.) You mentioned that Schauberger built one of these machines with Siemens.... if that is the case why on earth has it not his the open market, or are we talking illuminate/other oily slimy people's influence here?

QRT Because it was destroyed and melted down. After this Viktor was so mad so he went on with other experiments. Siemens in their hand "had other things to do"...

11) Again referring to a previous question asked about the peripheral edge of the wavy plate, needs to break the sound barrier¡K.. oh lets not get carried away this is the klimator, not the repulsine. Though ¡K¡K. If I happen to get the fastest motor on the market and crank the klimator¡¦s speed up. What do you predict?.... lost limbs? Radioactive exposure? Sudden levitation¡K.. ohhh this is too exciting! Ill stop here!

 

QRT Yeah, this is THE question!! Frankly, I do not know but I intend to find out :-D

But, what I think is as some have mentioned and something that Klaus Rauber told me in 2001 we must consider the very name: Repulsin or Re-pulsin. We have a Repuls i. e. a standing wave between the outer peripheri and the centre. Maybe the frequency can be calculated by looking on the waves of the double membrane. Anyway this is why I think that the speed of sound is interesting. In this speed we have rather instable conditions with lots of noice and pressure "bumps". The chance is high that some frequency is the correct to generate a standing wave between the centre and the peripheri. This means that we will have a pressure node at the centre and one at the opening (like a Kuntz tube). As the waved double membrane by it's rotation and geometry works together with the sound wave the air will start to flow. When the air passes over the tops it will roll over and shape into tourus (donut) rings. Or like smoke rings that lies on the membrane. For each wave the smoke ring will be more twisted together and the rotation increase tremendously. When the air in super fast rotation smoke rings comes out at the peripheri they will flow off succing the air on the outside with them. This, together with the inflow will generate a sub pressure above the device and it will start to move into that sub pressure.

Regarding eventual radiation this is something we have to be aware of. This is a technique bringing atoms and molecules very close together. It can be so that we can trigger some nuclear reactions as in cold fusion or similar. Also, be very careful if you are going to rotate plates in a high speed. It is easy to be decapitated... SO BE AWARE OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Now, this is for the co rotating V. S. original system. What happens with our experimental devices is to find out!! Also, please read Dr Everts papers on: http://www.evert.de/indefte.htm here you find more on how the Repulse or pressure interference technique works. Please note, that Walter Schauberger always said the his fathers technique is a resonance technique. This IS important!

OK, hope you are "still confused but on a higher level" at least I am :-D

May the vortex be with you! //QRT

 

 

Thank you Curt.

You dont know how grateful I am be in contact with you. I have many more questions but firstly. I have a machine that I hope you could comment on. Offlist though.

This is a water purification vessel based on the repulsator. pg 159 energy evolution.

- Create a dark 4C refrigerated airtight box.
- Create a perspex or Glass blown egg shaped vessel with sealable openings at the top and bottom. This egg is attached to an axle at the top and bottom, which is attached to a motor. This whole egg/motor contraption is then built into the refrigerated box.
- place filings of gold silver zinc and copper. along with granules of maifan stone into the cavity of the egg.
- attach the output of a water distilling machine to the top of the egg.
- fill egg with distilled water.
- drain 40% of the water by impressing CO2 into the once air tight egg.
- turn machine on, this activates the refrigeration coils and starts to alternatively changes the egg's direction of rotation every 10 or so minutes.

Should you open the dark box I presume you would see the water moving the zinc copper gold silver maifan fragments in a planetary cycloid motion. (do you think the planatory cycloid motion will happen?)

Wait a while, open the bottom of the egg and you have mountain quality spring water flowing out leaving the zinc copper gold silver maifan fragments behind in the built in sieve...

Please let me know what you think. I am faced with an option of creating the Klimator or my repulsator idea at this initial stage. please could you give me any suggestions, motivations, cautions and information.

Thank you Stewart

 

Hi Stewart!

Regarding your water (purification) vessel I would say you are on the right track! There are some minor objections from my side, however.

First, it is not a purification device, it is a noble water machine! What you are doing here is that you are applying the processes of mother nature in an intelliget way.

The design:

I have no objections on the glass egg as long as you really have the egg shape and not a simplyfied egg. It is also important that you have the blunt end up! The blunt end is the meeting end and the sharp end is the emitting or leaving end. Glass is a good material, but you can also think of glass fibre with epoxy resin. As a matter of fact, Viktor Schauberger recomended "modern artificial hartz" and that is exactly what epoxy is. I guess that a composite solution gives a higher degree of freedom of the production. Then, Epoxy is rather nasty to work with (contact allergic =wash if you have got it on your skin, do not breath in dust from grinding use a breathing filter). BUT, when it has cured it is one of the most inert material we have. It must cure for at least
3 weeks in room temperature or for 2-3 hours in 80 C deg before use, or, preferred, a combination of some hours in 80 C deg and a week, after-curing. Do some initial run first and throw this water away before drinking.

The dark box and the cooling process are OK.

Regarding the rotation it is important that you have a vortex coming from the outside towards the centre. I am not shure if you just rotate the vessel that a good vortex will emerge. I would have used a rotor in the centre on the bottom. As a matter of fact, I can multiply my 80 mm PVT (twin disks) so that the water comes in from above and out between the discs at the perifery. In my meaning this is the perfect agitator for such a device. If you want I can make a double disk with a shaft for rotation (5 mm). If you drill a hole 5 mm in the centre of the vessel you can have sealings and bearing on the outside of the vessel. Just make shure that the egg vessel is big enough so you can have a plane surface of 80 mm on the bottom. If you want I can send a sample of the micro PVT for your evaluation. Just send me your snail mail adress.

Altering rotation from clockwise to anti is something that Viktor tells us to do, so do it ;-)

Then the cemicals.

The CO2 must be filled during the whole process as it will go into the water. After some seconds after the start, a vacuum
(V. S. named it the biological vacuum) will start to emerge. This vacuum will succ the CO2 into the water and consume it until the water can not take any more.

Instead of having gold, silver, copper and zink filings I propose that you have surfaces inside the vessel that is made of these metals. Why not have "bottoms" shaped like the bottom end. Make one in each material and have them in this order: zink, copper, silver gold. If you make a pile of these bottoms with an electrical insulator between you will have like a battery increasing the correct energies. Make a hole in the centre of the bottoms so that the central vortex can go down to the PVT. The distance between the bottoms allows the periferic vortices to pass into the central vortex. When they do so the will be charged. Make the bottoms replaceable, as the zink and possibly the copper will be consumed.

There must be an insulation to the whole vessel. The insulation material shall be Parafine (used for candles). The Parafine shield the noble water from negative energies from the outside and keeps the up building forces and energies inside the water. Place the Parafine shield directly to the vessel with the cooling tubes inside the parafine or maybe the tubes direcly attached to the vessel and the Parafine just outside to the tubes. Then is good to have the electrical sources as far away as possible. Use a DC electrical motor if you can.

According to V. S. several minerals have to be added to the water. On pg
163 in "The Energy revolution" you can find a recipe. However, I do find these numbers quite high. I am working with a swedish scientist that is well aware of Viktor's ideas and she is also working as a mineralogist healing people by balancing the mineral content of the body. She has also analysed the content of several "table mineral water" and several wells as well. Not surprising she have found a correlation between our health and the quality of the water. All in all she recomends intervals for the minerals:

Na 20,0 - 200 mg/litre K 2,0 - 20 Ca 20 - 100 Mg 2,0 - 20 (note: continously drinking water that contains Mg 10 mg/litre lowers the risc for cardial deseases) Cl 10 - 100 F 0,1 - 1 HCO3 100 - 1000 (CO2 succed into the water)

Cu 10 - 100 ug/litre (micro gram) Fe 20 - 200 Mn 1,0 - 10 Zn 20 - 200

Toxic metals (limits): Al <100 ug/litre Cd <0,05 Hg <0,02 Pb <0,1 U <5

So, I propose that you make a fluid mix of these minerals (without the toxic metals ;-) ) in such concentration so you know exactly how much to add on batch (one run in the vessel). This means that you poure destilled water add the minerals. Close the lid and start the production. In darkness and decreasing temperature (down to +4 C deg) the process is going, turning the rotation from side to side until a certain time has gone. Then it is ready, nice!

Now, if you choose to build a device like this and you put it into production, we (watreCo AB) can be your agent here in Europe. At the moment we are building up our market channels to our other products, this one fits in our line!

Regarding the Klimator and Repulsin we can work together but I know that Frank Germano is interested as well. We should involve him as well, if he isn't already.

My purposes with the Repulsine (at the moment) is to use it as a propulsion system for high speed catamarans. We do have principle solution that I will test during the coming months. It is based on the PVT (twin disc system) but applied to one of our nozzels for ice making (!!??). It is a long story but it seems to work. I will keep you informed of the progres. Of course we have several other applications in mind but if we get this one to work it will be more esay to make the others.

So, this was all for today, let's stay tuned.

May the vortex be with you! //QRT