IET Community: Repulsine - Temperature Drop
From: stewart mackenzie <stewarttw88@...>
Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:15 am
Subject: [viktorschaubergergroup]Curt Repulsine
Interesting to hear what you have accomplished. Now I have an interest in the repulsine because, it can be adapted for water purification, air land and water transportation, cooling air, free electricity, and a host of others limited only by imagination.
Curt I have loads of questions for you, but a few at a time. I would like to hear about the results of any tests that you might have performed.
* Mainly concerning air temperature of an heat insulated enclosed box. The final and initial temperature reading, along with the duration it took for the temperature to drop... if there is a drop at all.
* What use did you intend this machine to accomplish?
* Any pictures?
* 80 000 rpm interesting.... after overcoming the nerves I ask: What curve are you using?
From: "Curt Hallberg"
Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:26 pm
Subject: SV: [viktorschaubergergroup] Curt Repulsine
Hi Stewart et al!
Shure, I will see if I can answer everything... ;-)
Now, the (air) temperature will most likely drop as we are using VS tech and we do have a pressure drop (=temperature drop) in the centre of the vortices. However, I have not meshured this in this very small unit. This unit is rather un practical so I have decided to make a bigger, 250 or 500 mm diameter instead.
But, I have meashured a temperature drop in Flow forms (a water treater device) where I found a 0,1 C deg drop after each unit (or 1 C deg after 10). Also, inside our vortex generator where we found a temperature drop on 10 C deg while running air inside. This vortex generator is rather interesting as we have meshured a pressure near vacuum (97% or -9,9 m wc) while running water inside.
So, as the Repulsin have several small vortices inside and it is working according to the Implosion ideas we will have a temperature drop here as well. The time for that drop is instantly as the pressure drops immideately inside. What is fascinating is that we have a pressure of 3 bar (in water) at the inlet perifery and only 2 cm to the centre we have almost - 1 bar, a pressure drop of 4 bar within 2 cm, not bad...
Regarding the micro Repulsine this was only for a test. But we (probably) need a perifery velocity near the speed of sound. This means that we must rotate with + 80 000 rpm, not very practical as we need VERY expensive bearings for this...
The curve... I guess you mean the cut profile of the waved discs. What we should look after is how the spiralled tubes are made. Something that Mr Callum Coats proposes, and I do agree, is that we can look on the twin waved disc system as an infinte number of small vortices spiralling like the spiralled tubes but between the discs (the PVT...). If you look on the picture of a spiralled tube and imagine how the flow is inside and between the discs you will understand. Consider the side projection of a spiralled tube, here you can clearly see how the side profile of the discs should be.
However, there is one exeption! The distance between the tops is increasing as the flow forces the "threads" to open up. In the discs (PVT) case, the distance between the wave top should be THE SAME. The reason is that as the discs rotates and the perifery velocity increases along with the radius, and, the vortices will bend in a smooth curve (hyperbolic ??) following the rotation. When this happens the vortices will flow sideward across the waves and this path will automatically generate the correct increasing between the tops. So, in some meaning the design is self monitoring.
In the micro Repulsin case I used a "simple" sine wave. I choose to have 4 wave tops starting from the centre. The height of the tops is decresing, where the curve that is connecting the tops is following the hyperbolic curve.
The actual height of the tops has to be considered to be practical according tho the seize of the discs. In my case the tops in the centre are ~12 mm and at the periferi they are ~5 mm. The diameter is 80 mm. Now there is one top disc and one bottom disc, slightly different.
I take in air/water at the centre of the top disc where there is a hole ~15 mm in diameter. On the bottom disc there is a corresponding "hill", shaped like the blunt side of an egg (meeting side). This "hill" goes over to the sine wave at radius of ~10 mm. The hole goes over to the upper sine wave so that the tops are following the "valleys" of the bottom disc.
In Viktors own designs the air was taken in at the second and third set of waves through "gills" in the upper disc. In this design, the discs was mounted with bolts in the centre of the disc system. The waves was rather strictly designed with following a straight line between the the valley and the top and with a circular top and valley (I have a sketch added in this mail).
Then we have the discussion on how the discs shopld be rotated... Clockwise or anti? Then should both discs co rotate or should one stay still? This is something we must find out during testings. V. S. designs was
(mostly) co rotating so this is probably where we should start. But, we know that at least one device (the Augsburg model) had one disc fixed.
Now, I read that someone asked why no one has tried to manufacture these devices. Well, the answer is that it is not easy to "back engineer" this type of technology, so frankly, I think that not one has ever been succesful to do this. I know some people in Austria has been trying this for along time. I do NOT think that it demands Viktor Schaubergers "spirit" to do this, but I think we need more information. I do know that some info is still missing. A very important device (according to V. S.) is an inlet that preforms the air before it enters the discs, is missing in all pictures and most drawings. However, in some drawings (in the one I added) a sea shell shaped device is proposed.
Then of course it is matter of understanding this technology and this is not an easy task. I have been working with this the last 20 years but I still see new effects that I did not know...
The last issue is, if these devices worked in the first place? Well, we do have some written evidence. We do know that the Augsburg model worked. This was a device for cooling exhaust gasses from aeroplanes and it was tested at the Messersmidtverke in Augsburg during the WWII. 100 C deg steam was put into the machine while it was running. Immideately 4 C deg water came out at the perifery. But the machine did not get hot. What happend to the energy?? Probably converted into useful kinetic energy. It is here we should start to look for applications!!! These machines are NOT any Perpetuum Mobiles of the first degree. They are energy converters that gather low useable/degree energy as heat and converts them to useful energy that can be further converted into electricity. Truly utilising the Implosion or the natures way.
We also know that something happend to a Klimator made by Siemens. This climator melted when some un authorised persons tried to run it. In this case all magnetic parts completely melted but not copper or aluminium parts! This indicates that very strong magnetic vortices are involved, a clue!
We do have anecdotic information about a flying device tha lifted of and crasched into the ceiling.
Something of the picture I added. This is a drawing of the Klimator a type of aircooler/heater. However, the design of the waved discs is the same as in all Repulsins so you can starte from this type. The device is hanging in the ceiling so that is why you see it upp side down and the air intake is from below. You only have one side of the drawing but it is symertic in the plane of rotation.
Well, this was something about Repulsin designing, I hope you have got some answers but also more questions.
May the vortex be with you!
//QRT (Curt Hallberg, IET, Sweden)